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Post by hollygail on Oct 7, 2016 7:05:33 GMT
Welcome!!! You have entered a space where all people are invited to gather to discuss matters of Spirituality, in mutual respect and friendliness: "Considering...Spirituality." Here, the focus is on personal spirituality and not dogma. We welcome with open arms people from any, all, and no religious/faith backgrounds, and those who practice spirituality on their own, to join us for a discussion centered on a higher consciousness. Each day there will be a quote, question, or discussion prompt presented for all to ponder and respond to.
**In maintaining an atmosphere of comfort and trust, we do not allow proselytizing (the effort of trying to convert others) or the denigrating of the religions and viewpoints of others. We also avoid bringing up topics such as politics, hot button social issues, or anything that can be considered divisive**
As this was a WW board, we also discuss our personal wellness, including our weight management program. We share our struggles and our triumphs regarding such as well as discuss things like family, friends, jobs, hobbies, outside interests, etc... We strive to build each other up with loving support in a positive manner. Let us not ever tear one another down in any way, shape or form.
Regular thread starters for the time being are:
Sunday, Monday, Tuesday: Gary / Wednesday, Thursday, Friday: Holly
Yet if anyone is so inclined, please feel free to start a new thread by beginning with the title: "Considering....(topic -q/q)", post this introduction (by way of copy & paste) then follow that with a post putting forth a question and/or quote (with or without some explanation) for us to ponder today. The topic can be inspired by your personal faith, but please do remember that anyone from other spiritual paths should be able to answer it.
Shalom, Love & Light, Blessed Be, Namaste...
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Post by hollygail on Oct 7, 2016 7:10:10 GMT
Here's an article I looked for. I'm not sure how much of it I agree with, but I thought I'd run it up the flagpole to see people's reactions... I'm doing almost no editing. The author is a rabbi I'd never heard of before; I tend not to spend time with people who subscribe to the "school" from which he studied.
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What Is Spirituality?
Elusive Yet Vital
The simple answer is that spiritual is that which is not physical. Which doesn’t help us much, unless we can define “physical.”
Some people will tell you that “physical” means anything they can see, hear, smell, taste or touch. That’s problematic. I can’t perceive radio waves with any of my five senses—or any other form of electromagnetic energy outside of the light spectrum. Does that mean that my phone calls are being transmitted by spiritual means, and my microwave oven is cooking using spirituality?
On the other hand, I can see a rainbow. Is a rainbow physical? Are colors physical? Are the colors that appear to the eye by optical illusion (such as the green band that appears when blue and red are placed contiguously) physical?
Perhaps a better definition of physical, then, is that which can be given discrete measurement. We can’t see radio waves, gravity or nuclear forces. We can’t hear infrasound (sounds at very low frequencies) or ultrasound (sounds at very high frequencies). We can’t feel thin air with our sense of touch. But all of these can be measured, at least theoretically.
“Spiritual,” then, is that which eludes discrete measurement. Have you ever tried to rate degrees of love? Or precisely categorize an idea? We can see the symptoms and effects of all of these, even measure those to a degree, but we cannot measure emotions and ideas themselves. Not because we do not have the tools, but because they inherently elude measurement. They are among those things that, sociologists and psychologists bemoan with exasperation, “count the most, but can’t be counted.”
If you are reading this, you are probably alive. Life is inherently elusive. When we say something is alive, we mean just that: it will not be the same this moment as it was the moment before. It is constantly eluding definition, transcending itself. A plant is alive because it grows. An animal is yet a higher quality of life, because it moves about deliberately, by its own reason. A human being is yet more elusive, escaping his or her own self through communication with others.
It is for this reason that the most common metaphor for the spiritual is light. Of all the physical phenomena, light is the most elusive. We don’t see light—we only see the objects off which it reflects. We can’t grasp it in our hands, hear it with our ears, taste it or smell it.
Light is our closest physical metaphor for the spiritual.
Most fascinating, even our best technology is incapable of providing a perfectly discrete measurement of light. Quantum mechanics, perhaps the most successful physical theory ever developed, determines that it is impossible to provide both the position and velocity of a photon of light (or any particle of energy). Not because we don’t have good enough tools to do so, but because that measurement simply does not exist. A photon of light has a discrete velocity without a discrete position, or a discrete position without a discrete velocity, but it does not have both.
Light, we must say, is still physical. But it’s the closest we get in our common experience to a spiritual form.
If spirituality is such an essential element of the human experience, why is it that contemporary science appears to ignore it (some scientists will even deny that there is such a thing)?
Modern science is all about those things that can be measured. We haven’t yet developed tools to deal scientifically with those things that elude measurement. That creates major problems for us, because attempting to understand the universe with tools that measure only quantities but not qualities is extremely limiting.
We can speak of time in metric terms. But what about the quality of the flow of time as a human being experiences it?
We can speak of colors in terms of frequencies of light waves and their combinations, but that is still quite distant from the human experience of color, which changes throughout the day according to mood and other factors.
We can speak of neurons transferring data to be electrochemically imprinted in our brains. But what about the experience of perceiving that image in our mind? What about the “qualia” of human consciousness? How can we possibly begin to say we understand the universe we observe, when we have no scientific way to discuss the act of human observation? How can we say we understand anything at all, if we find in it no relationship to the inner experience of being human?
Although we don’t know what spirituality is, we all experience it constantly. The deep knowledge we do have of the spiritual is through those special individuals who are capable of vivid experiences of that which eludes the rest of us. We can compare these experiences to one another, analyze them, and attempt to construct our ideas from them.
The Kabbalah contains much of this discussion, and the classic Kabbalists developed rigorous systems by which to study these ideas. The Jewish tradition, similar to that of science, is tightly accumulative, slowly and carefully building upon the confirmed knowledge of the past.
At some time, perhaps in the near future, we will find ways to include the non-physical within scientific study. Until then, it would be foolish to believe that that which cannot be counted simply doesn’t count.
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q/q:
What's your take on this article's contents? How much do you agree with? What would you change if you had written an article like this one?
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Post by glrogers67 on Oct 7, 2016 16:47:59 GMT
My take on this article is that there are many things mortal man does not know or can't yet explain with scientific study which exist nonetheless. Just because we can't "measure" it scientifically doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I believe the words of the prophets both those who have lived before and those who are currently living. I can feel the spirit - it can't be measured physically but I know it exists. When I follow the promptings of the spirit good things happen; when I don't I can't count on good things happening. What have living prophets said about the spiritual?
Doctrine & Covenants 131:7-8 -
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter
From the Guide to the Scriptures:
Spirit
See also Death, Physical; Man, Men; Resurrection; Soul
That part of a living being which exists before mortal birth, which dwells in the physical body during mortality, and which exists after death as a separate being until the resurrection. All living things—mankind, animals, and plants—were spirits before any form of life existed upon the earth (Gen. 2:4–5; Moses 3:4–7). The spirit body looks like the physical body (1 Ne. 11:11; Ether 3:15–16; D&C 77:2; 129). Spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure than mortal element or matter (D&C 131:7).
One example of something that science is only now beginning to explain is the tenets of the Word of Wisdom or the Lord's law of health as found in Doctrine & Covenants section 89. At the time the Word of Wisdom was given the harmful effects of alcohol, tobacco, coffee, and tea as well as the beneficial effects of eating healthy grains and herbs, etc. were largely unknown. Today science has verified much of what the Word of Wisdom teaches about healthy eating habits.
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