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Post by glrogers67 on Sept 6, 2016 4:17:41 GMT
Welcome!! You have entered a space where all people are invited to gather to discuss matters of Spirituality, in mutual respect and friendliness: "Considering...Spirituality." Here, the focus is on personal spirituality and not dogma. We welcome with open arms people from any, all, and no religious/faith backgrounds, and those who practice spirituality on their own, to join us for a discussion centered on a higher consciousness. Each day there will be a quote, question, or discussion prompt presented for all to ponder and respond to.
**In maintaining an atmosphere of comfort and trust, we do not allow proselytizing (the effort of trying to convert others) or the denigrating of the religions and viewpoints of others. We also avoid bringing up topics such as politics, hot button social issues, or anything that can be considered divisive**
As this is a WW board, we also discuss our personal wellness, including our weight management program. We share our struggles and our triumphs regarding such as well as discuss things like family, friends, jobs, hobbies, outside interests, etc... We strive to build each other up with loving support in a positive manner. Let us not ever tear one another down in any way, shape or form.
Regular thread starters for the time being are:
Sunday, Monday, Tuesday: Gary
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday: Holly
Yet if anyone is so inclined, please feel free to start a new thread by beginning with the title: "Considering....(topic -q/q)", post this introduction (by way of copy & paste) then follow that with a post putting forth a question and/or quote (with or without some explanation) for us to ponder today. The topic can be inspired by your personal faith, but please do remember that anyone from other spiritual paths should be able to answer it.
Shalom, Love & Light, Blessed Be, Namaste...
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Post by glrogers67 on Sept 6, 2016 4:37:17 GMT
Many organized religion have specific rules of conduct in order to remain in good standing in the faith. In the LDS church it is much the same. There is a manual, guidebook if you will, called the Handbook of Instruction with instructions to priesthood leaders about how to handle virtually any situation that may come up with the members. I think the larger an organization becomes the more such guidelines are relied upon, many times more or less ignoring the promptings of the spirit. Priesthood leaders are instructed to rely upon the promptings of the spirit, but being mortal, fallible men, leaders often rely more upon the Handbook than the spirit. A case in point, which inspired this topic, was an article by Elizabeth Smart who was abducted when she was 13 years old and raped over and over during the years she was in captivity. Since her rescue she has been an advocate for abused women. Here are some extracts from the article:
Recently, in an interview with Broadly, Elizabeth Smart shared some of the unintentional but devastating and potentially crippling side effects that can result from the way Mormon culture addresses chastity.
"I think the power of faith is amazing, the hope and the healing that it can bring to people," Elizabeth Smart said in the interview, crediting her LDS faith for helping her survive and overcome the nightmare of her abduction.
"But I also think there's another side of it that can be potentially very harmful, especially when a lot of religions teach that sexual relations are meant for marriage... It's so stressed that, girls in particular, tie their worth to their virginity, or, for lack of a better word, purity."
And Elizabeth Smart had been one of those girls.
"I did make that promise to myself that I was going to wait until marriage before I had sex... Well, then I was kidnapped and I was raped, and one of the first thoughts I had was, 'No one is ever going to want to marry me now: I'm worthless, I'm filthy, I'm dirty.' I think every rape survivor feels those same feelings, but having that with the pressure of faith compounded on top—it was almost crippling."
It was right after this experience that Smart recalled a lesson she had as a young woman, in which she was told, "You're like this stick of gum, and if you have sex before you're married, it's like someone chews up that piece of gum, and then when you're done, who wants a piece of gum that's already chewed up? No one."
While the intention of the lesson was to teach uplifting, eternal values, the overall message failed to communicate that she was a daughter of loving Heavenly Parents who would love and want her, no matter what.
Even after her rescue, Smart sat through another such lesson, in which she was told: "You're like this beautiful fence, and you hammer these nails in, and then every time you have sex with someone else, it's like you're hammering in another nail. And you can take them out, you can repent of them, but the holes are still there."
"I just remember thinking, This is terrible," Smart shares. "Do they not realize I'm sitting in class? Do they not realize that I'm listening to what they're saying?"
And Elizabeth Smart wasn't the only girl who could have been harmed during such lessons. One in five women report experiencing rape at some point in their lives, while 1.4% of men report experiencing rape—not to mention the fact that many rapes go unreported. Then there are countless others who have made mistakes and can't escape the guilt or shame these analogies can cause, even after they have repented.
These brothers and sisters sit next to us every week in Sunday School classes. They overhear our conversations. They already endure recurring triggers that remind them of the pain of their experience. It's important as disciples of our Savior that we do not add to their pain but, instead, help them find hope and a greater sense of worth.
"The way we talk about [sex and abstinence] needs to change," Elizabeth Smart said. "People need to realize there is nothing that can detract from your worth. When it comes to rape and sexual violence and abuse, that can never detract from who you are."
Today's q/q: Do you feel there is an overemphasis on "following the rules" rather than "following the spirit"? Why or why not?
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Post by hollygail on Sept 6, 2016 4:53:06 GMT
This one is loaded...
First of all, rape is NOT SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rape is an act of VIOLENCE.
If the lessons had to do with CONSENSUAL sex, instead of just the one word "sex," perhaps rape victims might not feel so totally worthless. Perhaps it wouldn't make a difference in how rape victims felt after having been raped, but come on, people. Sex? NO. RAPE IS NOT SEX.
And I agree with Ms. Smart not only that (1) the way people talk about sex and abstinence needs to change, and that (2) people need to realize there is nothing that can detract from an individual's worth, and that (3) when it comes to rape and sexual violence and abuse, these (as well as other things, which Ms. Smart doesn't include in this particular quote) can never detract from who the person is.
Second, rules vs spirit... the "letter" of the law vs the "spirit" of the law... If, God forbid, someone were to come after me with the intention of killing me, and somehow I had a gun in my hand, I can't imagine that I'd think twice about shooting the person before s/he had the opportunity to kill me. (In Judaism, killing in self-defense is not against Jewish law; murder, on the other hand, is. So I'd be following both the rules and the spirit in this example.)
I'm not sure what more to say. Gary? Want to clarify? be any more specific?
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Post by glrogers67 on Sept 6, 2016 16:45:00 GMT
Absolutely, Holly. Rape is NOT sex; it is violence. However victims of rape because of teachings of their faith can feel tremendous guilt about being raped - unfounded guilt, but guilt none-the-less.
For me, although the article was talking about the guilt associated with rape and other sexual crimes, it triggered in me memories of "letter of the law" vs. "spirit of the law". There are members of the LDS church who go to the Bishop about every little sin. Bishops are mortal men with their own fallibilities. Sometimes, as Bishops, they can apply the spirit of the law to a situation, and sometimes they have to rely upon the Handbook of Instructions. Really, one function of a Bishop is to help members get through tough periods of their lives. He has access to resources for counselling, family services, church welfare, etc. that he can bring to bear to help members repent and get their lives right with the Lord. If a member can repent of sin on their own through prayer, scripture study, and making personal changes then the help of the Bishop is not required. I have a real problem with confession of most sins to another human being, even a priesthood leader, when the spirit can help the person even more if he/she is open to it. The Handbook of Instructions lays out a scripted solution to most problems a member will encounter, but really it is the spirit that heals. I guess that is why some have a problem with organized religion. All the rules and regulations can be overwhelming and really shouldn't be necessary if people are living by the spirit. I guess I see one point of organized religion is to help people with problems in their lives who are not spiritually sensitive, but for me it is much more than that. It provides a community of like-minded people to fellowship and support one another the Lord's way.
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Post by Holly on Sept 6, 2016 22:54:19 GMT
I agree that one point of organized religion provides a community of relatively like-minded people to support one another, although my guess is my idea of community and yours, while having several things in common, diverge when it comes to many more categories... One example: in Judaism, certain prayers are said ONLY in community (and in this case, "community" is defined by the presence of ten Jews over the age of 13). My mother's yahrzeit (pronunciation: yar-tsait, to rhyme with far-sight) is Friday, and in order for me to say the mourners sanctification (kaddish), I need nine other Jews over 13. I will have no problem, since the morning minyan I attend always has at least 10 Jewish adults on Fridays (that's the day one of the members makes lox & eggs & onions for breakfast after services, and someone else always brings fresh bagels, and there's cream cheese and some kind of butter substitute, like I Can't Believe It's Not Butter or the equivalent), and in the summer time, there's often fresh fruit too, and of course there's always coffee, etc.). But this morning, for instance, I was the 7th person in the door (and I was pretty close to being late), and only two people came in after me, so we had to skip several individual pages here and there in the prayer book...
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Post by Holly on Sept 6, 2016 22:55:17 GMT
I'm using someone else's computer; I didn't sign in first...
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Post by glrogers67 on Sept 7, 2016 0:50:50 GMT
Holly, looks like it's just the 2 of us here lately. One thing I really don't understand about Judaism, and honestly disagree with, is the need for a "quorum" of 10 Jews over the age of 13 to say certain prayers. First of all, as I have said many times, there are very, very few prayers that must be word for word in the LDS church. Second, if I had to have a "quorum" of members to say a prayer I would only pray once a week on Sunday at church since I live alone. Prayer is a huge part of my life, but I do it alone most of the time. I would also hate to have to drive to a church building to say prayers and other rituals, although I could change my mind after hearing about what is being served! Kind of interesting, after our new High Priests group leader was called he started a tradition of bringing cookies (or other treats) for our class.
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